<paroneayea> MEETING LOGGING STARTS!
<paroneayea> =======================
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    #mediagoblin
<paroneayea> so hey all :)  Here's the agenda for this meeting... pretty
             short, but even though it's only three points there's plenty to
             cover in it I think:
             http://wiki.mediagoblin.org/Meeting#Jun_1st.2C_2013_9:00_am_Pacific_Time_.282013-06-01_16:00_UTC.29
<paroneayea> feel free to append agenda items at last minute if you like, just
             let the channel know :)                                    [11:08]
<paroneayea> so first of all, I think we have a few new people present to
             these meetings; as usual, we go through the agenda, and also I
             have a tendency to ramble, but actually I really appreciate
             interjections :)
<paroneayea> don't be shy
<paroneayea> first of all, who's all here?  We'll give a quick minute for
             people to raise hands :)                                   [11:09]
* paroneayea here!
* LotusEcho is here
<rodney757> raises hand
* aaronw is somewhere around here
<paroneayea> I'll let further hand raising trickle in if people like, but
             let's move on to the first item :)                         [11:10]
<paroneayea> * Welcoming our GSoC and OPW interns                       [11:11]
<paroneayea> so hey, i suspect everyone has seen:
             http://mediagoblin.org/news/summer-of-awesome.html
<aditi> (y)
<paroneayea> so congrats to aditi, LotusEcho, Tsyesika, tilly-q, praveen97uma,
             and rodney757, who are all joining us this summer :)       [11:12]
<paroneayea> mentored by spaetz, joar, aaronw, aeva, and myself
<AVRS> RTL has been mentioned for the meeting.
<paroneayea> oh right, let's put that on there.
<paroneayea> added!
<paroneayea> so, we've got a good summer ahead of us between all those
             projects.  We're currently in the "up to speed" section of the
             timeline:
             http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013  [11:13]
<paroneayea> I don't actually have too much more to say other than that I'm
             excited than what I've already written.  However, if anyone wants
             to raise anything on the GSoC / OPW stuff, I'd be happy to
             discuss it?                                                [11:14]
* odinho here
<paroneayea> heya odinho 
<praveen97uma> Will we be given the commit rights to the main repo?     [11:15]
<paroneayea> AVRS: too bad osamak isn't here for the RTL stuff, oh well
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: ah, great question :)
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: I'll make sure all mentors have commit rights
<paroneayea> we already have several people in here who have commit rights;
             usually the way we do things is people develop in branches, and
             as for merging                                             [11:16]
<paroneayea> the core committers usually review things and often discuss in
             channel before things are merged
<aaronw> paroneayea: so the expectation isn't that mentors will necessarily
         merge mentees' work?                                           [11:17]
<paroneayea> the "mediagoblin way" of doing things usually involves a fair
             amount of IRC discussion (and students are expected to be on IRC
             regularly) but as for checking in with your mentor, you should
             work out with them the best system
<paroneayea> aaronw: I expect we'll figure out as we go whether or not things
             should be merging; mentors will have the *commit rights* to
             merge, but I think we'll be discussing in-channel whether or not
             things are ready for merging and at what point             [11:18]
<paroneayea> that's usually how things work, especially for big features, and
             i feel like it works for us
<paroneayea> aaronw: however, if a mentor would prefer to do email
             communication with their student if that works better for their
             schedule, I think that's fine, but it would be good if we could
             loop back to the community either via the list or keeping me
             updated so I can keep IRC updated with how things are going
                                                                        [11:19]
<paroneayea> does that make sense?
<paroneayea> or, does it sound reasonable?
<paroneayea> also I'm not sure if I answered your question; I think a better
             answer is "possibly, but at the very least mentors should try to
             help guide the code to a point where it *can* be merged"   [11:20]
<aaronw> paroneayea: that sounds reasonable. having not had (or needed) commit
         access before now, I'd just need to get up to speed on that process
         before i was comfortable doing it.
<paroneayea> aaronw: cool, sounds good                                  [11:21]
<paroneayea> as said, the process is "semi-formal": we have an unspoken
             process that involves conversation in here.
<paroneayea> anything else on this front?
<paroneayea> I'll take that as a no then :)                             [11:22]
<praveen97uma> wait!                                                    [11:23]
<paroneayea> BTW: elrond usually informally helps review things, but he's
             going to be out the next week and a half.  I'll be visiting some
             family from the 7th to the 12th and will be "mostly around"
             during that period, but checking IRC.  Otherwise I expect to be
             regularly around.
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: yes? :)
<praveen97uma> I am fine with the communication happening either on IRC or via
               email, but I have this doubt of where I will submit my work?
                                                                        [11:24]
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: aha :)                                       [11:25]
<praveen97uma> Will I have to create a clone of mediagoblin repo to my own
               gitorius acc?
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: yes (though if you want to host it somewhere else
             it's fine, but a git repo somewhere, yes, and gitorious works
             well)
<praveen97uma> Does this work like forking on Github?
<paroneayea> right.  So you'll make a "feature branch" that's stems off of git
             master, and you'll keep committing to that feature branch  [11:26]
<rodney757> praveen97uma: I just use github
<paroneayea> it's fine to use github if you like
<paroneayea> though note you can't use github's "auto-forking" or merge
             requests since we don't have an official branch on github, so
             you'll still have to make a git repo and push your stuff up there
                                                                        [11:27]
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<paroneayea> but yeah, so you'll keep int in a branch, and we'll see about
             merging things as we go
<paroneayea> in rodney757's case, he got some work done that was ready to be
             merged before the entirety of his project was done, so we're
             merging some pieces in as we go
<paroneayea> for some other features, it might be merged in all at once
<paroneayea> your mentor should be able to help you with this if it's
             confusing.                                                 [11:28]
<paroneayea> or, ask on irc
<paroneayea> we've got plenty of people around who have experience with this
             workflow
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: does that help/answer your question?
<praveen97uma> but will I be able to keep my repo on GitHub updated with the
               changes on MediaGoblin repo's Gitorius?
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<LotusEcho> This is an example of a feature request branch that I've done on
            gitorious, if that helps:
            https://gitorious.org/~lotusecho/mediagoblin/lotusechos-mediagoblin/commits/trac_492_comment_preview
                                                                        [11:29]
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: yes, you can, you just need to add mediagoblin's
             main repo as a remote
<paroneayea> and you can just merge the main mediagoblin's master in
             occasionally
<paroneayea> we can help show you how to do that.
<paroneayea> praveen97uma: we'll try to get you going with that this next week
             then.
<praveen97uma> I am familiar with feature branches, but I was not sure how to
               make my repo on Github upadted.                          [11:30]
<praveen97uma> Okay! Thanks
<paroneayea> great :)
<paroneayea> okay, anything else on OPW/GSoC stuff, or should we move on?
* paroneayea gives a few more seconds :)                                [11:31]
<paroneayea> I'll assume we should move on then
<paroneayea> *  The coming 0.4.0 
<paroneayea> okay!  So we've got a new release coming out in this next week
<paroneayea> we said monday, though I think it is going to take a bit longer:
             freedeb wanted to do an actual press release about this because
             the document support is pretty big news                    [11:32]
<paroneayea> so we need to get that out and give them a few days before the
             release
<paroneayea> I'll see where things are at after this meeting
<paroneayea> otherwise we are well on track
<paroneayea> 0.4.0's main features are document support, and the improved
             plugin infrastructure (with the piwigo plugin as an exterimental
             bonus, and lots of smaller features)                       [11:33]
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<paroneayea> by the way: I think most of the students for OPW/GSoC will be
             using the plugin infrastructure, so reading
             http://docs.mediagoblin.org/#part-3-plugin-writer-s-guide in
             addition to the other docs may be a good idea :)           [11:34]
<paroneayea> anyway, the next release name is "Hall of the Archivist" and has
             a librarian goblin mystic :)
             http://dustycloud.org/gfx/goodies/hall_of_the_archivist.png
                                                                        [11:35]
<paroneayea> still in progress ;)
<paroneayea> but I think well we're on track
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<paroneayea> I should stop rambling
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<paroneayea> anything anyone wants to discuss on this front?
<paroneayea> hi larjona !
<paroneayea> (or should we move on to the next section of post-0.4.0 stuff)
<larjona> hi! Sorry I came late!
<paroneayea> larjona: no problem; always happy to have you!
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<paroneayea> alright, nobody's raising any further 0.4.0 points so we should
             move on to what's next? :)
* paroneayea assumes that's a yes :)                                    [11:38]
<aaronw> Yes!
<paroneayea> okay then: * What's after 0.4.0?                           [11:39]
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<paroneayea> so, plugin stuff came in 0.4.0 as a prerequisite for the types of
             work we needed for the summer projects (and because we wanted it
             to land as part of this year's goals anyway), and as we discussed
<paroneayea> after the plugin stuff landed, the "core focus" would shift to
             federation work                                            [11:40]
<paroneayea> originally I figured I would be doing most of that because as is
             usual in mediagoblin I tend to put down a lot of the "core
             infrastructure" and then people build on top of that, but this
             summer we've got Tsyesika doing work on federation stuff, who has
             experience from working on pypump
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<paroneayea> we've sketched out some new plans for pypump:
             https://etherpad.mozilla.org/pypump and for pump integration:
             https://etherpad.mozilla.org/mediagoblin-api               [11:42]
<frewsxcv94040> wooo pump integration
<paroneayea> indeed!  in fact, today is "pump day" as identi.ca is being
             converted from statusnet->pump.io                          [11:43]
<frewsxcv94040> i was just about to mention that
<paroneayea> :)
<frewsxcv94040> (though the site is going pretty slow right now)
<paroneayea> I'm not sure how fast that will land, and the other focus really
             is... well actually most of our "big focus" projects have become
             summer internship projects, so I think we'll mostly be working on
             getting those moving forward
<paroneayea> I'm not sure if we should be targeting very specific things on
             0.4.1 other than bugs and working on the summer projects, though
             I'm open to discussion
* shnatsel wonders what's the status of UX design improvements, particularly
  the ones he suggested                                                 [11:44]
<paroneayea> shnatsel: aha, good question
<paroneayea> shnatsel: so I think the main thing that held back the ui design
             improvements you suggested is we don't have a way to go back and
             resize images, etc
<paroneayea> the discussed "reprocessing framework"                     [11:45]
<shnatsel> which is a summer internship project AFAIR, so we're good?
<paroneayea> well, gabithume made a proposal on that front actually for OPW,
             but mozilla took her as a student :)
<shnatsel> oh
<paroneayea> so we don't have a student working on that, but
<paroneayea> so, *usually* what I do is I end up working on core
             infrastructure, and then people build the features that builds on
             top of that                                                [11:46]
<paroneayea> I figured I'd be working on federation work, but we've got
             someone who knows that area better than me with a good plan, so
             :)
<paroneayea> maybe I should work on the reprocessing stuff.
<paroneayea> it needs more sketching out.
<aaronw> can you quickly summarize the suggested improvements and what needs
         to be changed in the repro framework?                          [11:47]
<paroneayea> aaronw: sure
<paroneayea> so say we change mediagoblin's layout so that the images are full
             width, or say we add a new video codec, or there's metadata we
             want to extract from old media
<paroneayea> we currently have a submission->process->display workflow
<paroneayea> there's no way to go back to the middle step at present.   [11:48]
<paroneayea> http://wiki.mediagoblin.org/Feature_Ideas/Reprocessing
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<paroneayea> http://wiki.mediagoblin.org/MediaTypeRefactor
<paroneayea> are basically a set of use cases and thoughts on it but
<paroneayea> it's a big set of things to rethink clearly
<aaronw> paroneayea: ok, that makes sense. so we might want the admin to be
         able to say, "produce a NxM version of every image"            [11:49]
<paroneayea> right.
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<paroneayea> probably it will involve:                                  [11:50]
<paroneayea>  - some changes to the way *processing* works to make it more
             modular, so it can be reused for reprocessing
<paroneayea>  - some tools to allow media to be "submitted for reprocessing",
             at least via the command line if nowhere else
<paroneayea> not quite the same but related: the MediaTypeRefactor discusses
             converting media types into proper plugins
<paroneayea> and in fact!
<paroneayea> this is now something we have to do
<paroneayea> aditi's project for a blogging type, in order for it to have all
             the views it needs, means that the blogging media type needs to
             be able to specify new views when installed                [11:51]
<paroneayea> media types and plugins are actually pretty close as-is, so
             making those into plugins probably won't be too hard
<paroneayea> so I think actually we have a order of priorities: media types as
             plugins first, then reprocessing stuff?
<frewsxcv94040> sounds good                                             [11:52]
<paroneayea> I think there's a second side to shnatsel's comment though
<paroneayea> what about UI/UX stuff going forward, outside of that?
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<paroneayea> right now, for the most part, schendje_ has done almost all our
             graphic design.  He's mentioned that he's interested in helping
             guide our graphic design, but maybe there's ways we can pull in
             other qualified graphic designers in addition              [11:53]
<paroneayea> we've done that with code, we've never figured out how to do that
             with the design.  But I guess we haven't tried to pull in other
             graphic designers to actually check out the code and make changes
             the way schendje_ has either                               [11:54]
<paroneayea> I don't know what else to say on that, also I think I'm
             textwalling (sorry)
<aaronw> what are the major graphic design needs? improving the existing
         themes, making new ones...?                                    [11:55]
<paroneayea> those are useful; I think actually our design is presently
             actually good and nice looking
<paroneayea> but we've discussed before that our tendency is to kind of "code
             it first, then design comes in and cleans up later" (you and I
             have discussed that before, aaronw ) and that's unideal    [11:56]
<paroneayea> and I think we all agree it's unideal but nobody's found a way to
             change the situation
<aaronw> right
<paroneayea> although, you could argue that it's gotten us this far! ;)
<aaronw> you could; what might vary is where you think we are ;)        [11:57]
<paroneayea> :)
<shnatsel> well, there are many UX design flaws in 0.3.3
<aaronw> shnatsel: i don't doubt that -- can you give a few examples so we're
         on the same page?
<shnatsel> I can tell you how to fix them, maybe... I'm not a professional
           designer though and I generate good ideas half the time at best, so
           I'm probably not a good candidate
<paroneayea> shnatsel: well your email about the design stuff was good.  At
             the very least, maybe you could create a wiki page that discusses
             some of these things?                                      [11:58]
<pythonsnake> Hi
<pythonsnake> Only one designer is a bottleneck imo :/
<paroneayea> pythonsnake: that's the core problem, yes                  [11:59]
<aaronw> shnatsel: i don't want to disappoint you, but none of us are
         professionals ;)
<paroneayea> :)
<shnatsel> aaronw: upload process, for example. Location of upload button -
           inconvenient, undiscoverable. Upload confirmation - also poorly
           implemented
* paroneayea is a humanities major who self-taught his way into things
<paroneayea> shnatsel: well even if slow, if you'd like to take a crack at
             helping on the design
<paroneayea> maybe that would be good!
<paroneayea> the real thing is, we need to identify the issues, *and* we need
             help of designers who are willing to work with the community to
             improve things                                             [12:00]
<pythonsnake> shnatsel: well I'm working on improving that
<aaronw> shnatsel: as paroneayea said, i've raised before that i'd like to see
         a process where we design workflows & wireframes before features (or
         at least for purposes of reengineering them)
<shnatsel> Okay, I'll try. Let's see where that gets us. I'll seek peer review
           on any changes anyway XD
<pythonsnake> (with the multi-uploader thing)
<paroneayea> shnatsel: sounds great! :)
<aaronw> so if you want to pick a few places you think aren't working and do
         that, that would be great
<aaronw> sweet
<pythonsnake> aaronw: we do that already I think (?)                    [12:01]
<shnatsel> Okay, will do. I'll ask around for conventions later :D
<paroneayea> okay, should we consider that bit wrapped up? Summary: we need to
             reduce the design bottleneck by getting more designers who are
             willing to work with the community, shnatsel is going to try and
             help :)
<paroneayea> only 5 minutes left! and still one more agenda item
<aaronw> pythonsnake: yes, to some extent
<aaronw> hit it, paroneayea                                             [12:02]
* shnatsel thinks it's wrapped up
<paroneayea> cool
<paroneayea> last item is RTL support
<aaronw> As in right-to-left text?
<paroneayea> http://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/220
<pythonsnake> arabic?
<paroneayea> yup
<aaronw> oh yeah, this should be pretty easy i think?                   [12:03]
<paroneayea> so jiyda submitted a patch on this front
<paroneayea> and it does a nice job of passing a variable in that says whether
             or not it's right to left or not
<paroneayea> the problem is that it sets the whole page to rtl
<paroneayea> thus thumbnails, english text, everything is rtl           [12:04]
<paroneayea> AVRS pointed out that this can be its own problem:
             http://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/220#comment:9
<paroneayea> osamak said he'd be willing to review it over the next couple of
             weeks, and he helped with statusnet iirc... so maybe we should
             actually just see what he thinks(?)
<aaronw> right, that's a problem. one step to solving this might be to
         associate a css class with everything that should get RTL'd
<paroneayea> aaronw: right
<paroneayea> that's what cc.engine did                                  [12:05]
<paroneayea> class="foo rtl"
<paroneayea> er, cc.engine being the Creative Commons chooser and deeds code
             :)
<aaronw> yeah. i think that is probably the most sustainable option.
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<paroneayea> I can update that ticket with that suggestion
<paroneayea> I think though, that that's the end of the meeting unless anyone
             has anything else to say
<aaronw> so osamak has right of first refusal, and if he doesn't want it,
         we'll figure something else out?
<paroneayea> sounds good
<paroneayea> alright, shall we consider this meeting wrapped up?
<aaronw> yeppers!                                                       [12:07]
<paroneayea> MEETING LOGGING ENDS
<paroneayea> ====================
